"RV Parks and Pets???"

Discussion in 'Trip Planning and Travel Concerns' started by BankShot, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. BankShot

    BankShot
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    westernrvparkowner - Quite possibly in your case I did miss the point. We each have to run our businesses in the manner we feel is best and it isn't easy to walk in another person's shoes unless you are wearing them, which of course when it comes to running an RV park I am not. I can empathize with how you feel and also as to how you feel you have to react when situations such as this present themselves. I think that is one of the main reasons we would never consider managing or even owning an RV park even tho we enjoy being in them. And I suppose in this day and age a park owner would have to also be concerned about the moron coming back some day and setting fire to the park or doing something really destructive that would be financially devastating, etc. Like I mentioned in my prior post, shoot me a personal if you care to and we'll try to stop by and check out your park when we are traveling thru your area..............

    BankShot.............(aka Terry)
     
  2. Msubulldawgnwaco

    Msubulldawgnwaco
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    As a veterinarian, I feel it is my obligation to correct some misstatements concerning Therapy versus Service animals.
    Therapy animals are used in private situation and may enter places such as hospitals, nursing homes, or schools with special permission from proper authorities. They are NOT allowed in restaurants, grocery stores, and other places where food is served or handled. Once again, healthcare facilities and schools may allow therapy animals, but there are regulations and permits that must be filled in order for those animals to enter those facilities. Most therapy animals are used to engage people with certain conditions in order to get a positive response. Examples include dogs and cats in nursing home visits to reduce the effects of depression, dogs and cats in hospitals to improve spirits of patients in long term care floors, and horses used in therapeutic riding programs that assist in treating everything from dyslexia to cerebral palsy.
    Service animals fall into one of 2 categories: 1) public service/safety or 2) medical necessity. Public service/safety include dogs and horses used by law enforcement, dogs and horses used for search and rescue, and dogs used by fire departments for arson investigation. These animals have the right to go anywhere at any time and may not be asked to leave or be discriminated against in anyway. These animals will always be appropriately identified as will there handlers. (Law enforcement animals usually have a vest identifying them or a badge, search and rescue will always have the proper vest on, and arson dogs will also have a badge or vest.)
    Laws for service animals (dogs monkeys & horses) for medical necessity vary by state. That being said, most states have similar laws concerning medical service animals. These animals are used for medical conditions including quadriplegics and other neurological conditions, vision or hearing impairment, PTSD, brittle diabetics, and epileptics. In most states, these animals are allowed to go anywhere and cannot be discriminated against in anyway. In most states, these animals must be identified by either 1) a vest identifying them as a service animal or 2) a collar or tag identifying them as a service animal. If neither of these is visibly present, then you are allowed to ask for proof of service animal status. Owners are required to carry this at all times. In most states, it is illegal to place a service animal vest or tag on a non-service animal. In most states, if you have a question about the validity of a service animal, you are allow to call police and the police are allowed to ask the owners for proof of service animal status. In Texas and Mississippi where I am licensed, there are substantial fines for falsifying or fraudulently presenting a non-service animal as a service animal.
    As for multiple service animals by one person, that is not allowed in most states unless the person is a certified or licensed service animal trainer. Any actual service animal trainer will not take multiple animals by themselves into public ie. 1 animal to 1 trainer is the required ratio by all credentialing agencies. So the lady with 3 "service" dogs was most likely a fraud and you should have reported her to law enforcement.
    Also, owners of establishments are not allowed to ask about service animal status (once again in most states); however, that does not mean that a member of the public are not allow to ask. If you do not own or work to the establishment, you have every right to en quire.

    Sorry for the long post, but misinformation drives me crazy.

    Dennis A. Clark DVM
     
  3. westernrvparkowner

    westernrvparkowner
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    Thank you for your informative post, but much of your information now contradicts the ADA . After it's most recent revisions in 2011 only dogs and Miniature horse can be considered service animals. No other animal, no matter how well trained, are protected by ADA laws.
    Service animals are not required to have or to display any identifying papers, vests, collars or markings. Furthermore, the disabled person is not required to have any documentation or certifications. Multiple dogs are not indicative of non- compliance.
    There are only two questions a business may ask regarding a service dog.
    1. Is the dog required to assist a person with a disablility?
    2. What task is the dog specifically trained to preform?

    What that means in a practical sense, is if someone is willing to lie, there is nothing a business can do.
    As for the general public calling BS on a fake dog, I don't believe even the police have the authority to demand documentation that is specifically prohibited by federal law.
     
  4. docj

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    If a business owner asks these questions and the dog's owner is honest enough to say that the dog isn't trained to do anything other than "comfort" its owner, can the business then legally deny admission to the animal? I doubt that many businesses would push things that far, but I am curious as to what the statute says.
     
  5. westernrvparkowner

    westernrvparkowner
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    I think the business could legally bar the animal, since lack of comfort surely isn't a recognized disability. But I also think you are correct in that no business would ever take the chance. They have very little to gain. If the dog is aggressive, destructive or otherwise a big problem, there are remedies available, otherwise get them in, get them out, get on with life. This is one of my pet peeves of all time. The ADA has made it nearly impossible to challenge people who abuse the law. If you are willing to lie, you can take your dog nearly anywhere. Then there are "ADA Testers" which are disabled people who go from business to business trying to find the most miniscule violations of the ADA law. The toilet 1/2" too low, the mirror hung 1/2" too high, the pull force needed to open a door is a quarter pound too high, etc. They then sue and are paid a very substantial settlement, usually low 5 figures, to keep the matter out of court. They are often ghost employees of law firms that specialize is blackmail (excuse me, I mean being very much active ADA advocates). In the end, what this ends up doing is making businesses wary of the disabled and interested only in getting them in and out as soon as possible. The ADA is well intentioned, but it is rife with unintended consequences.
     
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  6. Msubulldawgnwaco

    Msubulldawgnwaco
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    You are correct partial correct with the statement above. The exact is;
    1) A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of disability?
    2) What work or task the animal has been trained to perform?
    Federal ADA does not say specifically dog/canine; however, some states laws do state dog/canine (such as Texas law). This does not actually limit service to just canines. I was informed that this is an area of current litigation.

    Let me preference that I am not an attorney; however I am a veterinarian that went through a 4 hour conference last year with both an ADA attorney and a veterinarian/lawyer. This presentation was generic to state laws since this was a national conference. You can look this up for yourself at ADA.GOV under Title II Directives to States. Many state laws are guided by this part of the federal law and most have laws or regulations in addition to the federal law.
    1) Title II section 35.136 of the ADA act DOES NOT define what species of animals can or cannot be service animals. It does have a section address specifically miniature horses. It does not define what constitutes a miniature horse. If you want to have a seeing eye tiger and it is readily apparent that the tiger is trained, you can have a seeing eye tiger.
    2) Title II section35.136 of the ADA Act does say you can bar or remove service animals if:
    (a) The animal is out of control and the animal's handler does not take effective action to control the animal; or
    (b) The animal is not housebroken (the act does not define housebroken)
    The law also states that the service animal must be under control of the handler at all times ( this can be with a leash, tether, voice control, signals, etc.).
    3) While the law does say that documentation is not required, many state ADA laws do have a requirement through their state agencies that documentation is to be carried if animal is not clearly identified as a service animal (identification can be through actions such as guiding or through a vest or tag on a collar). This may be in direct violation of federal law, but as of last year it was a standard practice in many states. This is maybe due to state laws not being updated to current federal standards. States also may have regulations defining requirements to be a service animal including required vaccinations (rabies mainly).
    4) Most states do have laws concerning the fraudulent use of a non-service animal as a service animal. Law enforcement can be contacted if fraud is a concern.
    5) The federal laws do not have any provisions for the number of animals allowed; however, many state agencies do limit the number of service animals allowed. Also most agencies that train and distribute service animals will limit the number of service animals allowed for a person. This is usually 1 animal due to the lack of resources and the great need for service animals.

    As for "comfort" animals, those are under therapeutic animals and not service animals if the person does not have a specific disability. I do not know what defines a specific disability by law.

    I attended this CE training due to the large increase in service animals in my region today. When I graduated 19 years ago, the only services animals we routinely saw were public safety, vision impairment, and quadriplegic care. When I graduated, I treated animals for law enforcement and search and rescue (dogs and regular horses), vision impaired ( several seeing eye dogs and 1 miniature horse), and a dog used to pull a quadriplegic's wheel chair. Now, I routinely see service animals (mostly dogs) for PTSD, diabetes, autism, anxiety, and epilepsy almost on a daily basis. Many times, clients have concerns over public perception and possible discrimination. These clients ask myself and my colleagues about these concerns. Also, many times we get questions from businesses, local government, and the public concerning service animals and the laws governing the animals. Often, we refer the public to the State Attorney Generals Office to answer these questions.
     
  7. westernrvparkowner

    westernrvparkowner
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    You should go to the source https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm . The first bullet point states "Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA" Later there is an amendment adding Miniature Horses. I will continue to rely on the law and prohibit any animals not specifically allowed under the ADA. There won't be any comfort snakes slithering around my park and there won't be any therapy hogs rooting around my cabins. And the seeing eye tiger is going to have to look elsewhere for accommodations.
     
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  8. Grace_Grant

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    I'll start by saying I realize this thread is quite a few years old....however I came across it today and surely others will too. There is something to be said, to be added to the equation. As I sit here today 5 years into my full time rving life I hesitate to walk my dog after morning coffee. WHY? Because this is a component of my life now. Rules state Dogs on Leash. But you know so many people take that as a suggestion rather than a hard & fast rule. So when I walk,my dog I must be more vigilant than a dog owner normally would be. Yesterday the folks in a site across the way had their dog off leash. I took a deep breath and just walked my dog, The man informed me his dog is a rescue, real friendly with people but hates other dogs so they have to watch her "real good". But today, 3 days later, even after the staff stopped by to tell him to leash...that dog is still unleashed. What the heck? Look, I love dogs. A leash is for their protection as much as ours and other dogs. This is what I say to those who think their dog has a right to be off leash....buy some land and let your dog free! Do not go to public places and break rules(in some states laws) to let your dog loose. You are flat out in the wrong when you do that.

    To my other point, camp owners/managers, staff...please enforce your rules. What I read here is about the managers hassle if they confront someone about violating rules. The thing is this: You are engaged in a leisure business. People pay you a fee for the service of getting away to relax and enjoying nature and/or the amenties you offer. People do not pay you a fee to endure the occassional bad guest. When you choose to avoid enforcing your rules to save yourself a poor review have you ever considered how many reasonable respectful quests you have put out? How the reasonable person just wants to relax and enjoy their break but they must endure loud rackets after quiet hours, loose dogs, kids running everywhere. You put the responsible quests experience behind the experience of the inconsiderate disrespectful one. Excuse me but havent they all paid the same fee? Why should the majority of your rule abiding guests deal with the nonsense created by the violator? So what you create is what Im seeing more & more of in campgrounds:free for alls. We have a long list of reasonable expectations upon arrival by quiet hours of our 1st night we've seen them all violated. It just doesnt feel good to see a majority of people follow rules while some brashly ignore them "oh, that doesnt apply to ME". Enforce your rules OR do the reasonable people a favor...eliminate rules all together so we can avoid your free for all.
     
  9. mdcamping

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    I remember having a similar discussion on a different camping & review forum during the great recession, webmaster at the time was getting a disportant amount of negative reviews . Some of the reasoning from the discussion was the owners were turning a blind eye because they needed the business. Now we have an influx of young, inexperienced, it's all about me campers.... same result maybe?

    Bingo on camp owners, managers, staff enforcing rules, it boils all down to that.

    Mike
     

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